Combat began in earnest today as the attorney representing storied venture capital firm Kleiner Perkins Caufield & Byers began her cross-examination of Ellen Pao, a one-time partner suing for gender discrimination and retaliation. Attorney Lynne Hermle sought to undermine Pao’s credibility by establishing inconsistencies in her testimony, cross-referencing Pao’s answers with excerpts from a pre-taped video deposition played before a standing-room-only San Francisco courtroom.
Pao, who left Kleiner Perkins in October 2012, is suing her former employer, claiming the firm relegated her to menial tasks and demoted her while her male peers were allowed to advance within the company. She also says Kleiner punished her after she complained. The trial, now in its third week, has captured the attention of the tech world, where women are still very much in the minority.
In her first day of testimony yesterday, under questioning from her own legal team, Pao portrayed herself as a highly qualified employee who was passed over and shut out due to bias. Hermle tried to show that, to the contrary, Pao lacked the investing and entrepreneurial experience that would have made her as qualified as she contended she was. Hermle also prodded Pao on her relationship with a former partner at the firm, suggesting the affair was completely consensual, and pointed to the advancement of other women at Kleiner to suggest that not gender but Pao herself was the problem.
Confronting Pao on the witness stand with the posting for her position, which listed humility as one of the job’s requirements, Hermle asked, “Do you know what ‘humble’ means?”
Question of Motive
Pao started the day on friendly turf as she faced more questions from her own team. She described Kleiner Perkins as a place where employee complaints fell on deaf ears and where issues could not be resolved through official channels. After she had filed a formal complaint with the company, Pao testified that she was fed up with Kleiner Perkins doing nothing. In May 2012, she said, she decided to file a lawsuit. “I had gone through every possible internal process that I thought I could go through,” she said.
The morning session ended with an impassioned speech from Pao about the need for equal opportunities for women in venture capitalism. “It’s been a long journey, and I’ve tried many times to bring Kleiner Perkins to the right path,” she said. “I wanted to make sure my story was told.”
In the afternoon, the defense worked to show that Pao’s motivations weren’t quite so noble. Pao conceded to Hermle that in the seven years she worked at Kleiner, from 2005 to 2012, she did not look for an anti-discrimination policy—implying that it only became a concern for Pao once she filed her lawsuit. Hermle pointed out that Beth Seidenberg, who heads life science investments at Kleiner, was promoted during the time Pao was employed with the firm. And she intimated that Pao had tried to manufacture controversy by stoking media interest in her lawsuit.
Hermle named two reporters with whom Pao had been seen having lunch since filing the lawsuit, implying an effort to promote her case. Pao protested that she considered the two reporters to be her friends.
’You Didn’t Say No?’
Hermle pushed Pao to recount the phases of her relationship with Ajit Nazre, the more senior colleague Pao with whom admits she had an affair, and who she says retaliated against her after she ended it.
Hermle tried to suggest that Pao welcomed the attentions from Nazre in early 2006. Pao acknowledged in her testimony that she thought the relationship with Nazre could be serious, that she told him she loved him, and that she shared that she wanted children. Hermle asked Pao about an incident in which Nazre touched Pao after Pao had been hit by a cab: “When Nazre went to touch you, you didn’t say no?”
Pao responded icily: “No, I had just been hit by a cab, so I couldn’t move.” She testified that she was in a daze and couldn’t refuse his advances.
“You’re not blaming him for what happened to you [getting hit by a cab], are you?” Hermle asked.
“Not this part,” Pao replied.
In June 2007, Pao testified, she went to Ted Schlein and Ray Lane, managing partners at Kleiner, and said she wanted to leave the firm. But she didn’t mention Nazre. Pao said she didn’t tell coworkers about the relationship until years later, and even then did not let all of the partners know about it.
A Meaningful Amount
During her morning testimony, in which she was questioned by her own attorney, Therese Lawless, Pao said that in early 2012 she sought a $10 million payout from Kleiner in exchange for her departure from the company.
According to Pao, she believed an eight-figure sum would be a “meaningful” amount to Kleiner—a number that would “actually hit their radar.”
“I wanted my payment to be enough so [Kleiner Perkins] saw it would be painful not to fix problems,” Pao said.
In her formal written complaint, which Pao sent in January 2012 to leading Kleiner Perkins partners Ted Schlein, Eric Keller and John Doerr, she wrote, “I believe that the treatment to which I and other women have been subject continues to this day and is carried out … by our firm more broadly. If you can, imagine your wife or daughter in my position and what it feels like to be deceived and intimidated into having a relationship with someone who flouts his seniority.”
In response to her complaint, Kleiner Perkins hired a lawyer, Stephen Hirschfeld, to investigate Pao’s allegations of gender bias at the company. Hirschfeld, who preceded Pao on the witness stand, interviewed employees at the firm, including all the female partners, and delivered a report saying he found no discrimination at Kleiner Perkins. On the witness stand, Pao accused Hirschfeld of taking selective notes and said he was not open to hearing what she had to say. “I feel like he was grilling me about answers I didn’t have, and trying to push me into specific answers.”
Pao also testified that she was told Hirschfeld had “expressed an interest” in working for Kleiner Perkins after the investigation as the firm’s HR lawyer. In an email describing Hirschfeld, Pao wrote, “I found him unprofessional, antagonistic, inappropriate and biased.”
Pao is currently the interim CEO of Reddit. When she started at the company, she said, she made $150,000 per year. But after her November promotion, Pao testified under questioning from Hermle, that salary rose to $220,000 a year. At Kleiner Perkins, Pao said, her base salary was $400,000. She also received bonuses and “carry interest” from investments in Kleiner portfolio companies. In her suit, Pao is seeking $16 million in damages from Kleiner Perkins.
